Monday, October 14, 2013

What the Joplin R-8 Administration is not telling you: Part Two-Discipline

Discipline problems are down in the Joplin R-8 School District.

If you don't believe it, just check the statistics. Of course, as those of us who work or have worked in the school district know, statistics mean what you want them to mean.

If you want the suspensions and referrals to go down, you change the way you handle discipline- if you handle it at all.

The improvement in discipline was cited in the Joplin R-8 School District's Race to the Top application and is noted in the U. S. Department of Education's critique of that application.

One way those statistics go down is to encourage teachers not to write referrals, not matter what the provocation.

If a child is out of control, the new way of thinking goes, it is not the child's fault, but the teacher's.

We learned at the beginning of the 2012-2013 school year what kinds of things were no longer sufficient to send someone to the office at East Middle School. We were given a list of offenses that were to be handled in the classroom or by the grade level teams. Those behaviors, which not too long ago would have brought an immediate trip to the office included the following:

-Disruptive behavior
-Misbehaving for a substitute teacher
-Throwing objects (unless there is an injury. It is no longer you could put someone's eye out; you actually have to put the eye out)
-Searching pornographic sites on the internet
-Cheating

Check the list on the accompanying photo. There are many more.

The actual discipline was thrust upon the grade level teams. This was what we had to go through to be able to send a student to the office during the 2012-2013 school year:

1. After the third classroom referral (those do not show up in the statistics), the students were called in to the meet with the eighth grade teachers.

2. The fourth one is a freebie.

3. After the fifth classroom referral, we were required to call the student's parents and let them know there is a problem.

4. The sixth one is a freebie.

5. After the seventh classroom referral, the student was sent to the office.

When we talked with the students and their parents, we let them know that after that seventh referral, the punishment would be strict since they had used up seven opportunities.

When people finally started teaching transgression number seven, we discovered we had unknowingly been lying to the students.

The students were not receiving any serious disciplinary measures at all, though they had received seven classroom referrals. Sometimes it was a one-hour detention; sometimes it was just a friendly conversation.

The matter was addressed in an October 2012 e-mail to the assistant principal from eighth grade team leader Brian Neugebauer:

A few of our students have been given office referrals once they have had 7 classroom referrals and sent to you as a result.  I feel the need to tell you that the 8th grade team is dissatisfied with the results of those office referrals from the office.


Last year we agreed to take on the task of extra task of managing MIR's, now classroom referrals, so long as once we sent student to the office they received a formidable consequence.  However, we have received a few referrals back with "One hour ASD" assigned as the consequence.  Our team finds this unacceptable.  Last year we agreed to have the first office referral result in a 3 hour ASD or similar consequence, why this year has it been downgraded to a One hour ASD?  When we talked at the start of year I recall agreeing to the same terms as last year.


If the teachers have taken on the extra task of managing the classroom referrals, talking with students, talking with parents, setting up conferences and the like, the first office referral warrants more than a One hour ASD.  We have been telling the students that once they get 7 classroom referrals they will receive a major consequence if the office gets involved as a deterrent, but now we have been made to look foolish as students tell their friends they only received one hour ASD.


If we need to talk more we can, but for not we really need to upgrade the 1st office referral and the following referrals to a more severe consequence otherwise we question if the time we are putting into this is even worth it.  After all, in this system students have already been warned several times by teachers before they get to you, which needs to be kept in mind when assigning consequences.  

At that point, we had been told that once the student had received that seventh referral, that on each subsequent referral, the student would be sent to the office. That also changed. We were notified that we had to give whatever "the intervention" was time to work. If a student was sent to the office in the third hour, and then received classroom referrals for disruptive behavior in the fourth, fifth, and sixth hours, there would be no office referral- we had to give the principal's intervention time to work.

It did not take long for the students to learn that being sent to the office wasn't any worse than receiving a classroom referral. Neither had any teeth.

It made things tough for younger teachers and it made it a nightmare for substitute teachers.

We were all told that if someone was out of control we could send the person to the office, Some teachers became frustrated when the students were back in the classroom before the hour ended. Before long, the number of those students being sent to the office began to decrease and teachers were forced to spend more time trying to deal with situations that would never have been tolerated in years past.

My last year, before it was so rudely interrupted, was a good one. I had not written an office or a classroom referral. The only referral I wrote came as a result of an after-school incident. I was in the hallway when I saw a seventh grade girl walk up to another seventh grade girl and without any provocation, slapped her in face, a slap I could hear all the way down the hall. I stepped in, took down the information, made sure the two girls were not going to be on the same bus headed home and then did the paperwork.

That was probably an error on my part since the referral showed up on the school's statistics. I am glad I did it though, so I could take a stance against teenage bullying.

I am sure the one-hour lunch detention the girl served put her on the right path.

This obviously has been geared to the discipline at one school, East Middle School. I would be interested in hearing the experiences parents, students, and teachers have had at other Joplin R-8 schools (teachers, remember to remain anonymous), or in other school districts.




13 comments:

  1. I do not find this fact hard to believe. This explains why this years Freshmen are so horribly out of conduct. They aren't being disciplined like they used to. One hour after school where they can just sit around doing nothing for multiple disruptions in class is completely unjust and irresponsible.

    I sit around for at least an hour once I get home so it's practically the same thing.

    If Joplin truly wants to cut down on disciplinary measures, take care of the issues as they happen and teach them that disruptions and such will not be tolerated. This will cause the teachers to actually be able to teach and the student to actually be able to learn. I am tired of all these students thinking they can go through life breaking rules and recieving little to no punishment.

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  2. I do not find this fact hard to believe. This explains why this years Freshmen are so horribly out of conduct. They aren't being disciplined like they used to. One hour after school where they can just sit around doing nothing for multiple disruptions in class is completely unjust and irresponsible.

    I sit around for at least an hour once I get home so it's practically the same thing.

    If Joplin truly wants to cut down on disciplinary measures, take care of the issues as they happen and teach them that disruptions and such will not be tolerated. This will cause the teachers to actually be able to teach and the student to actually be able to learn. I am tired of all these students thinking they can go through life breaking rules and recieving little to no punishment.

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  3. Anonymous7:53 PM

    How about a kid telling a teacher to F@&$ off, being sent to the office, and then coming right back with a mere "I was told to apologize" sneer from said student?

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  4. Anonymous7:54 PM

    AND THIS is why I retired!

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  5. Anonymous8:16 PM

    Because I know you care:

    I was in the hallway when I saw a seventh grade girl walk up to another seventh grade girl and without any provocation, slapped her in face, a slap I could her(?) all the way down the hall.

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  6. Thanks for catching that. I have fixed it.

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  7. Anonymous8:20 PM

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/stl-info/updated---missouri-educators-salaries/html_4e9b0b24-598c-505d-95c5-9a5d5e90f8d3.html

    I saw this on other Joplin article. Interesting--- type in Joplin schools in search area of above link- gives you list of Joplin school employees in order of highest paid to lowest. I did this because I'm not good with all the school employees' names, especially those that my child or his friends haven't talked about. My question--- admin fills the first two pages at least. WHY do they get paid so much if teachers are being told to handle the discipline?

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  8. Anonymous8:30 PM

    "Kids will be kids, you know."

    Anyone in R8 get this from an admin?

    How about that they "can't make them do the work"? But I bet you (if you're a teacher) feel like you are given no choice about getting them to do the work...

    Or what about the "don't get onto little George in front of other kids. Pull him to hallway so it's less embarrassing." Which causes more of a scene--standing close to kid saying put phone away (or a blanket statement to class) or "come here George I need to talk to you for a minute in the hallway." ??????? PLUS, I guess the other 25 plus kids will mind perfectly while you are out of sight...

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  9. Anonymous8:35 PM

    If teachers are handling behavior then they should get a piece of the admin pie. But teachers get jack in Joplin. Or get jacked. It's a hateful place to work.

    What really hacks me off is how much people make who never deal with a single student as far as academics go. Put all the pressure on the teachers to get scores up and then pay them the least of all.

    This district is a screwed up mess.

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  10. Anonymous9:55 PM

    Dude seriously MOVE ON. You are obsessed.

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  11. Anonymous7:25 AM

    Keep hammering him Randy. Huff is cracking from all the pressure you are putting on him. He is weak minded and weak willed. His game of smoke and mirrors is steadily falling apart and will continue break down as you continue to put pressure on him. He truly cannot handle anyone criticizing him or his actions (he just wants to be beloved by all – is that too much to ask?).

    Besendorfer - she is just mean and spiteful and not at all a good person, stay after her as well. She has proven to be a person that will go after someone and attempt to destroy his/her career and life simply because she does not personally like them - wonderful personality she has.

    The sad and unreal thing is they both truly believe they are doing the right things. In their view the rest of us are either misinformed by malcontents like you or we are just too stupid and don’t understand that they know better than we do (we should just do as we are told). Incompetent people do not know they are incompetent, but they will tell you how smart they are and then just be astounded and not understand when it all comes crashing down around them (always someone else’s fault).

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  12. Notta Turner-Tard or Huffite5:08 AM

    Have you ever figured out that your whining and obsession with Huff and the rest of the Joplin School Administration is creating "Whiner Fatigue" as it is coming from you and your tards who don't like the boss?

    Bruce Speck got used to understanding that the more the "liberals" whined, starting with you, then the more he could do whatever he pleased and be backed up by the Board of Governors. It was only when Bruce Speck got used to getting away with whatever he wanted that he stepped over the line by trying to finish off MSSU's idiotic "International Mission" -- what does a commuter regional college need with any such thing? -- and annoyed and embarrassed the Board of Governors to where they essentially run him off.

    Huff and Co are probably smarter than Speck was. Your whinings will be dismissed as the obsession of a rogue teacher who was fired for just cause along with the rest of Turner's Tards.

    There simply is no real cure possible for the failed system of public education. You yourself used to whine that public schools had to educate the essentially un-educatable whereas the private schools got to work with the disciplined students of the remaining white upper middle class. Now you are whining that this underclass, without much in the way of ability, self-discipline, or intellect needs to be expelled when they act up.

    Your blog is now full of the goings on of a bunch of perverts as public school teachers. This seems to be more common than in private schools wherein the "for profit" administrators run not only a leaner ship, but get their pick of the teachers as well as the clientele as students.

    Face it, Turner. Public education is failing in large part because of teachers like you, who insist that they know what they are doing, do as they please, get caught, get fired, and then refuse to take any responsibility for their actions. Then they obsess because the Administration has to spend time in political battles in detecting and removing rogue teachers like you while the students are simply more stupid and unruly and undisciplined than ever.

    Thus when the elected officials, be they the Board of Education or the Board of Governors, must make a choice between "liberal" troublemakers like you who will whine and bitch regardless, or their hirelings who promise that they will get matters back on track to when they were kids, even though the social order is degraded. When given a choice between CJ Huff or Randy Turner, who do you think that the reactionaries in the positions of authority and responsibility will choose?

    Right. CJ Huff. Bruce Speck.

    They should be careful only to not get too arrogant in getting whatever they want, which will be the exact opposite of what you whine for in favor; you and the rest of Turner's Tards.

    You really now are CJ Huff's best excuse for continuing to do as he is doing. And you are much too stupid to "get it."

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  13. Anonymous9:02 AM

    The fact that you use the insulting and derogatory term "tards" negates every word you say. That someone like you supports Huff says everything.

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