Josh Hawley, Lucas Kunce trade insults in only televised debate of Missouri Senate race

By Rudi Keller

Missouri Independent

In the only one-on-one debate of Missouri’s 2024 U.S. Senate campaign, Republican incumbent Josh Hawley sparred with Democratic challenger Lucas Kunce over abortion rights, border security and whether the 2020 presidential election was legitimate.

The abortion issue provoked some of the sharpest exchanges about 20 minutes into the debate. Hawley said he would not vote for Amendment 3, the reproductive rights proposal on Tuesday’s ballot. He co-sponsored a bill to create a national abortion ban at 15 weeks and has advocated outlawing abortion since he first sought office as Missouri attorney general in 2016, saying it is “not a right” and “should be barred by American law.”

 

Hawley said he supports exceptions for rape, incest or the life of the mother, but argued Amendment 3 is not limited to restoring legal abortion in Missouri.

“Amendment 3 would legalize sex change operations and transgender treatments for minors in Missouri without parental consent,” he said.

Legal and medical experts interviewed by The Independent said the claim is a stretch at best — and at worst, an outright lie. Gender-affirming care, they say, would not be impacted by Amendment 3.

Kunce, who has made his support for Amendment 3 one of the key points in his message, said Hawley is obscuring his old positions to fool voters.

“He will literally lie, cheat, steal, do anything he can to confirm his life’s ambition, which is to make sure that there is no abortion, no contraception or anything else,” Kunce said.

The transgender treatments claims are a diversion, Kunce said.

“He sees sex-change surgeries around every corner,” he said.

Thursday’s debate was hosted by Missouri Nexstar stations and broadcast from the KTVI/KPLR-St. Louis studios. It was also carried by other stations throughout the state.

Hawley and Kunce debated once before, at the Missouri Press Association convention in September. In that debate, which was not televised, they shared the stage with Jared Young, who formed the Better Party by petition to get on the ballot, and Nathan Kline of the Green Party.

No third-party candidates were invited to Thursday’s debate.

Hawley is seeking a second term in the Senate. Kunce is making his second run for a Senate seat after narrowly losing the 2022 Democratic primary.

They also clashed face-to-face at the Missouri State Fair, where Hawley demanded an outdoor debate without a moderator and Kunce called on Hawley to agree to five televised debates.

Thursday night’s debate was less than 30 seconds old when Hawley injected a snarky reminder that a bullet fragment fired by Kunce struck a television reporter in the arm at a shooting range near Kansas City earlier this month.

Kunce provided first aid and the injury was not serious, but it has been the butt of snarky social media posts from Hawley and his campaign.

Hawley referred to it in his opening answer of the debate.

“It takes a little bit of courage to share a stage with Lucas Kunce after he shot a reporter last week,” Hawley said.

When his turn came to answer the first question, Kunce described the event and turned Hawley’s quip back on him with a reference to the Jan. 6, 2021, riots in the U.S. Capitol.

Hawley sells coffee mugs with a news photo that shows him raising his fist in solidarity with the groups that later stormed the Capitol hoping to violently stop the certification of the presidential election.

 

“It is crazy to see this guy over here clutching his pearls over this when he is completely cool with inciting a riot that led to the injuries of 174 police officers, God knows how many other civilians, and even led to several deaths,” Kunce said.

Asked later in the debate whether he felt responsible for the mob’s actions that day, Hawley didn’t reference the violence as he defended his lead role in raising objections to the electoral vote count. “What I feel responsibility for is defending our Constitution, which is what I was doing that day,” Hawley said.

On immigration, Hawley said he voted against a bipartisan border security bill this year because it allowed too many new immigrants in while funding attorneys for their amnesty cases.

“What we need to do is close the border,” Hawley said. “What we need to do is reinstate the remain in Mexico program.”

Hawley accused Kunce of backing unlimited immigration and providing undocumented immigrants access to Social Security and Medicare.

“He said he was for amnesty,” Hawley said, referring to Kunce’s 2022 campaign. “He said that he was for no border wall.”

Kunce said he would have supported the bill because it provided for 1,500 new border agents and funding for new equipment. He also said Hawley doesn’t understand the real issues at the southern border.

Kunce, a veteran of the U.S. Marine Corp, said he trained with border patrol units in Arizona.

“I know what’s going on there,” he said. “I have seen it. I haven’t just done a field trip like this guy.”

The debate hit economic issues as well, ranging from whether Grain Belt Express should be able to use eminent domain to obtain a wind power electricity transmission line corridor to Hawley’s legislation to cap credit card interest rates nationally at 18%.

Hawley said he sees eminent domain as a threat to farmers, while Kunce said the national policy should be to expand energy created from renewable resources.

The credit card interest rate policy was one where there was some level of agreement between the candidates.

Kunce said the caps should also apply to payday lenders who charge rates in excess of 100% per year.

“We need to make sure these predatory financial institutions can’t come into these people’s lives and destroy them over and over and over again,” Kunce said.

Hawley said he doesn’t think his proposal would lead to fewer people having access to credit. Credit card companies would still offer credit cards to consumers even with a cap.

“They want the profit,” Hawley said. “They want the market.”

The last question of the debate was about how divisive politics have become, and where to draw the line on hate speech.

Kunce said there has been “a degradation” in politics and said Hawley is partially to blame.

“We have swamp creatures all throughout D.C.,” Kunce said. “Josh Hawley is a swamp creature.”

Hawley sought to turn that around to point to Kunce as part of the problem.

“If that’s my opponent’s attempt to unite the country, we’ve got a long way to go,” Hawley said.

Campaign activities

Kunce has been campaigning for the seat since late 2022, a few months after he narrowly lost a Democratic primary in the race for the seat eventually won by U.S. Sen. Eric Schmitt, a Republican.

He is the best-funded Democrat running statewide this year, raising almost $19 million since the start of 2023. Hawley has raised $26.4 million since taking office in 2019, but only $7.4 million since the start of 2023.

They are the only statewide candidates who have advertised continually on television and digital platforms.

Kunce has purchased $7.3 million in television time on broadcast and cable outlets, tracking by The Independent shows. He has also spent $2.7 million on digital platforms, with another $1.6 million devoted to direct mail, according to his campaign finance reports.

Hawley has spent $5.4 million on television and radio advertising and a PAC called Show Me Strong has spent another $2.7 million on his behalf. The campaign has not spent significantly on digital or mail promotion.

“He’s only run negative ads against me, nothing about his own record, because he hasn’t accomplished anything,” Kunce said.

In fundraising emails, Kunce is pleading for cash to beef up his final television buy. While independent polls indicate Hawley has a double-digit lead, Kunce touted one sponsored by his campaign that shows a margin of three percentage points.

Kunce’s campaign has not purchased any ads beyond Friday.

Hawley, meanwhile, is begging for more money to hold Kunce off. In an email sent Wednesday, he told supporters that “I’ve got BAD news. It’s Sen. Josh Hawley, and a new poll just confirmed my WORST fears.”

Hawley has repeatedly sought to draw out Kunce to say he will vote for Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic nominee, on Tuesday. Even when asked during the debate, Kunce refused to reveal how he would vote.

Hawley is counting on long coattails from former President Donald Trump to boost his chances on Tuesday.

“While my opponent will not tell you tonight who he’s going to vote for, I think we all know whose policies he supports, Kamala Harris,” Hawley said in his closing remarks.

Kunce has been criss-crossing the state this week, with stops in Smithville, Columbia and Cape Girardeau.



Hawley will be part of a statewide GOP get-out-the-vote tour on Monday, the Missouri Republican Party stated in a news release.